DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610
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    heartyfisher
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    DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by heartyfisher » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:19 pm

    Got a new toy recently .. nikon D7200

    Took some test shots .. both images are using the nikkor 70-200 F4 DX at 100mm f5.6 and FX at 150mm f8 .. I tried to level the field as much as possible...

    Looks to me like the DX combination wins :-) .. at least in edge sharpness ;-)


    below are full res images .. from my dropbox
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ucxkc4fnra6 ... 1bkza?dl=0

    Note that I set the D610 for a slightly warmer output and have not done the same for the D7200 yet..
    PS : download the images for best viewing .. somehow its sharper than viewing it on dropbox ...
    Moments of Light : D7K D610 18-200 150 12-24 24-70 70-200 + C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by LOZ » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:45 pm

    Sorry but I get better results from my iPhone for web viewing :?
    Calm down its not real life its a internet forum:)
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by Busiboy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:34 pm

    The edge sharpness would be the fault of the lens, not the sensor.

    The crop sensor basically misses the fuzzy edge bits the fX gets.
    *PPOK*
    C&C always welcome

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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by beeb » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:45 pm

    I don't know how controlled the lighting was, but I much prefer the more open shadows of the D610 shot - I didn't really look into it more than that though. This test won't do much to push either lens or sensor anyway.

    In a perfect world we'd all love the best lens and camera combination, but I've seen plenty of amazing shots from some very basic camera gear.
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by heartyfisher » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 pm

    beeb wrote:I don't know how controlled the lighting was, but I much prefer the more open shadows of the D610 shot - I didn't really look into it more than that though. This test won't do much to push either lens or sensor anyway.

    In a perfect world we'd all love the best lens and camera combination, but I've seen plenty of amazing shots from some very basic camera gear.


    what would you recommend as the test image and conditions ?

    The shadows were because of the window and early morning light. The difference was the F8 aperture and F5.6 .. the D610 at F8 removed much of the light and shadow from the window and the main source of light was from the flash.
    The shutter was 1/60 for both I probably should have increased that to 1/250 to further reduce the ambient light input..

    Of course most of an image is the result of the software in a cranium :-) but its fun to do these sort of tests to show if there are any technical differences in the gear's ability to image a scene.
    Moments of Light : D7K D610 18-200 150 12-24 24-70 70-200 + C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by beeb » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:13 am

    heartyfisher wrote:
    beeb wrote:I don't know how controlled the lighting was, but I much prefer the more open shadows of the D610 shot - I didn't really look into it more than that though. This test won't do much to push either lens or sensor anyway.

    In a perfect world we'd all love the best lens and camera combination, but I've seen plenty of amazing shots from some very basic camera gear.


    what would you recommend as the test image and conditions ?

    The shadows were because of the window and early morning light. The difference was the F8 aperture and F5.6 .. the D610 at F8 removed much of the light and shadow from the window and the main source of light was from the flash.
    The shutter was 1/60 for both I probably should have increased that to 1/250 to further reduce the ambient light input..

    Of course most of an image is the result of the software in a cranium :-) but its fun to do these sort of tests to show if there are any technical differences in the gear's ability to image a scene.


    If you really want to test the two setups, then consistent lighting is key. As in seal off all natural (variable) light and use constant (ie: filament bulbs, not flashing lights like energy saver "bulbs" or flourescent tubes) lights or speedlight/strobe flashes (and the same shutter speed) to light the scene for consistency between shots in the comparison. IMO, Make the light harsher also to really test dynamic range, shadow detail/noise, fine detail resolution (particular edge detail), CA, etc... And shoot at a consistent aperture also. Then the only variable left are the bodies and focal length, which with a decent quality tele-zoom, should vary very little on the optical side of things.

    It's worth noting though that if you're using SOOC jpegs for the comparison - you'll probably see very little difference between cameras, as each camera will automatically compensate for all sorts of "flaws". Most modern cameras automatically detect the lens attached and correct CA and vignetting in jpeg, and with some fast-aperture primes - some cameras will slightly boost the ISO to make the OEM brand lens seem "faster" than their competitors, Canon bodies coupled with the 85mm f/1.2 L II spring to mind. Take a shot with a Sigma lens and then the Canon lens at the same aperture, and all lighting/settings being consistent the Canon combination can be shot with a faster shutter speed for the same exposure. Sneaky buggers 'ey? 8)

    But then RAW is also difficult to compare directly, as both images have to be set up to the same settings/adjustments, and depending on how well developed the RAW data interpreting is carried out by the software it can effect the consistancy of the results. ie: Adobe is (or at least was...) notoriously poor when working with images from Fuji's X-series cameras with the X-trans sensor. Often it was preferable to open a full-size jpeg as a mock-RAW image and work from their as the Fuji in-camera jpeg processor did a much better job of maintaining (faking?) better dynamic range and fine detail.

    On the flip side of the coin, it's worth nothing that some folk prefer cameras or lenses with features that others would consider "flaws" as they better suit their creative visions. Less dynamic range = more contrasty/"punchy" images. Poor ISO performance can create a "gritty" look. Some old lenses create some weird effects in their bokeh (the famous Biotar/Helios swirl effect for example). Some like crop sensor bodies because they're generally smaller and lighter than the 35mm sensors. Etcera, etcera, etcera...

    So in conclusion I'd say, don't worry too much about it. :) Pick up whatever camera you feel comfortable with, and enjoy shooting, and as long as you feel happy with the results, that's all that really matters IMO.

    At the end of the day, the camera makes very little difference - it's got more to do with being in the right place, at the right time (generally falls under "luck"), to capture the right light the best way - or to know how and when to 'break the rules' and create something fresh and innovative (this comes under "skills/practice"). If the light's amazing, the scene is beautiful, and everything's falling into place, a manual control-enabled compact camera will get surpringly close to a D-SLR if the operator knows how to subtly hide the flaws of the system... :wink:
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by heartyfisher » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:08 am

    Thanks for that post .. a few things to think about if I do do another test..
    Moments of Light : D7K D610 18-200 150 12-24 24-70 70-200 + C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.
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    Re: DX vs FX - D7200 vs D610

    by Doug » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:55 pm

    what would you recommend as the test image and conditions ?


    My preference for testing would be natural light, since that would give me the most meaningful results for 99% of what I do.

    I would shoot an interestingly textured flat wall in outdoors light, as it takes the DOF differences of the two sensor sizes out of the equation.

    Set both cameras to manual everything (WB. ISO, exposure).

    Use the same aperture and focal length on both cameras. Mark the diagonal corners of one cameras framing with Blu Tack and reposition the other camera (closer/further) to have the markers in its diagonal corners.

    Using live view focus may ensure greater focus accuracy and try to be as square on to the wall as possible.

    Probably best to have the wall in direct sun light, not filtering though clouds and do any exposure adjustment if needed between shots with shutter speed not aperture.

    This would be my sensor difference test for what would matter to me in my usage.

    You have your own reasons and usage for having both DX and FX in the kit, so your tests should be geared to what it is useful for you to know about the two cameras strengths and not as strong features.

    Any test is valid if you keep the results in perspective.
    SOOC jpegs can be very good and in the age of WiFi cameras have additional usefulness. So which camera takes the most pleasing jpeg to you is information worth knowing.

    I suspect your tests are more out of curiosity, both have a 24 mp sensor all be it of different sizes, the D7200 is a year newer so it would not surprise me if for most applications it is as good if not better.
    After the initial pixel peeping I'm sure their operation, features, ISO performance, and how they work in conjunction with your lenses will have far greater effect on what you choose for a given task.

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