Canon 1ds Mk111 chat night
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    Canon 1ds Mk111 chat night

    by Ken182 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:54 pm

    Canon came to Adelaide last night to do a catch up with the faithful and remind everyone how good there top camera is.

    It was a good evening with some info about the camera, a local photog - www.jamesknowler.com.au - doing a personal brief on the camera and a special moment when the new 800mm f5.6 L series turned up to walk the red carpet.

    There was a nice lady from Melbourne - Michelle I think her name was, who did the corporate presentation. It was a good presentation and very straight forward, although some of the claims in the presentation where a bit rubbery or grey which means you could argue them one way or the other, although the faithful all nodded their heads :-) . Michelle's presentation took in the use of Canon software and the cabled and wireless linking of the camera to a computer incorporating live view. In a studio this is something I could get visually vertical for, James pointed out that the thing that poo's him the most is when the stylist or the AD are trying to look at the back of his camera after each shot while on location, now he can sit them in a corner with his laptop which is linked wirelessly and they can leave him the hell alone to do his job. This spoke heaps to me.

    The claims which I thought a little thin:
    Our 22mp is as a good as medium format
    Our tonal range is the best
    Our low light is just as good

    All in the eye of the beholder I would have thought. The four questions that were the biggest that I thought Canon needed to address where:
    Price parity
    Canon professional services
    Grey import support
    AF problems with current one series cameras

    Canon pro services - you must have 2 x 1 series bodies and 3 x L lenses to be in the club, this has changed to 1 x 1 series body and a 5D - phooking wahoo big change.

    Price Parity - they say they already have it, and if your local dealer can't match to tell them to contact Canon and push Canon for a better deal. Just price it well in the first place.

    Grey imports - you should be supporting your local dealer. They claim 10% variance, on a 12K body that's $1200.00. That is significant in today's Commercial Photography industry.

    AF problems - oh look over there some cute puppies (really didn't get an answer)

    I thought the whole spiel was very much what we have come to expect from Canon - very corporate, very elitist and very thin on real substance. At one stage as she talked up the Mk111, I thought they would show us how the camera is being used in developing a cure for cancer.

    I am currently on the fence as I look to invest in a whole new dig system for the next 3-4years. So far Canon are leaving me a bit cold, maybe their local rep can warm me up a bit.
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    by David Anderson » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:36 pm

    Resolution aside, IMO for people photography the 1DsIII is better than medium format digital because it's MUCH faster to shoot and has far more scope for lenses.
    They don't have anything like the 85 1'2 L in the medium format world.

    Also, a MFDB gives very hard, sharp results that don't do much for skintone.
    They might be ok for models, but here in the real world the 1DsIII leaves them for dead, if I did commercial stuff my view might be different.

    The DSIII color is fantastic straight off the raw, I now do less post than ever before and get great skintone.

    The 1DSIII is VERY good at high ISO - for PMA we printed a shot to around 5 feet long that was done at a show at 1600 ISO on the 135L - there is next to no noise with no post reduction - the color is also outstanding.

    I'm sure the Nikon D3 is awesome as well, but you would need to enlarge it twice as much to get the same resolution and that's not going to help noise.

    Also, IMO the D3 is outclassed by the DSIII at low ISO, though as I've said before I look forward to trying their hi-rez camera when they make one.
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    by Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:58 pm

    Just one thing, and thanks for the review

    "Grey imports - you should be supporting your local dealer. They claim 10% variance, on a 12K body that's $1200.00. That is significant in today's Commercial Photography industry. "

    Does thsi take into account the 10% duty that one often has to pay importing goods over $1000 or vs landed grey market via say D-D ? The latter I'd assume othwersie sounds pretty fair to me.

    and no, I'm not :D
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    by David Anderson » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:48 pm

    The DsIII is now around 10 grand at a shop here - maybe less if you haggle.

    How much are they OS or grey market ?
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    by AJ » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:34 pm

    David Anderson wrote:The DsIII is now around 10 grand at a shop here - maybe less if you haggle.

    How much are they OS or grey market ?


    grey $9199
    https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/index. ... -body.html

    us $7799
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    by 10fps » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:38 pm

    David Anderson wrote:The DsIII is now around 10 grand at a shop here - maybe less if you haggle.

    How much are they OS or grey market ?


    http://www.d-d-photographics.com/canoneos1dsmkiii.htm

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    Re: Canon 1ds Mk111 chat night

    by 10fps » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 pm

    Ken182 wrote:Canon came to Adelaide ...


    No-one is ever going to admit their product is not up to scratch. Even the people on the dark side at Nikon would do the same thing.
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    by Sir Tristram » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:21 pm

    Does thsi take into account the 10% duty that one often has to pay importing goods over $1000 or vs landed grey market via say D-D ? The latter I'd assume othwersie sounds pretty fair to me


    Daz, 2 weeks ago I picked up my grey market version and I got a gst inc invoice. And it was still over $1k cheaper than buying Australian stock...Did I mention the dealer also gave me a 3yr Mack Warranty where if anything goes wrong I take the camera to Canon in Sydney and get it fixed and the bill goes to Mack.

    As for results I am enjoying using the Ds over my 5D. I have a fake bride shoot this coming Sunday which should give it a great workout.

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    by Ken182 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:29 pm

    I think price parity is important but performance is I think far more important and David has looked at that a bit.

    Generally speaking the camera suits David down to the ground and this would suggest he has a business plane to back it. My main concern is anybody starting out needs to invest so much to have access to service that in a crunch is vital to any photog. These services are available at Nikon for less investment.

    I dig where David is coming from about big prints etc, but the Fuji S5 punches out great detail on big prints for far less investment. So do you get where I am coming from.

    I am trying to find an analogy to place the MkIII. It sort of is not big and bad enough to be a medium format contender and for a large majority of small format photography it is way overkill. Anyway my thoughts are along that line.

    I will respond to Davids post more directly as well.
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    by David Anderson » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:10 am

    What gear are you using now Ken ?
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    by Ken182 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:20 am

    David Anderson wrote:What gear are you using now Ken ?


    Beg, borrow and .....!

    I am in a state of flux so I am taking this opportunity to wring the hell out of everything to find out which way I want to go. The state of flux surrounds goings on which I will let onto soon - early next month.

    No they are not releasing a new model Ken182 at photokina.

    Recently have been using the new Nikon stuff, June and July used a mix of Canon and Nikon.

    I really reckon the way for me to go will be 5D MkII or D700. I was really impressed with the D700 recently, however 5D MkI was and still is quite impressive.
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    by Ken182 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:27 am

    David I am going to respond, some of my answers will be short to keep the post short , don't read harshness into.

    David Anderson wrote:1DsIII is better than medium format digital because it's MUCH faster to shoot and has far more scope for lenses.
    They don't have anything like the 85 1'2 L in the medium format world.


    Fairly irrelevant comment as they do totally different things. L glass is not as good as it is marketed to be, ask any 5D owner, medium format uses have enjoyed top quality for decades.

    Also, a MFDB gives very hard, sharp results that don't do much for skintone. They might be ok for models, but here in the real world the 1DsIII leaves them for dead, if I did commercial stuff my view might be different.


    I do commercial, portraiture, editorial etc and I have found the results are to die for, I think you are underselling the MFDB. Don't forget there are a ferw brands out there.

    The DSIII color is fantastic straight off the raw, I now do less post than ever before and get great skintone.


    Canon aren't unique in this area.

    The 1DSIII is VERY good at high ISO - for PMA we printed a shot to around 5 feet long that was done at a show at 1600 ISO on the 135L - there is next to no noise with no post reduction - the color is also outstanding.


    "Colour" David, we are in Australia now. Sorry just poking at you. Canons colour is not stable across its upper range of cameras. The 40D and the 5D I have had personal experience with and was only whelmed.

    I'm sure the Nikon D3 is awesome as well, but you would need to enlarge it twice as much to get the same resolution and that's not going to help noise.


    This is so a Canon comment, compare some feature that you know doesn't apply to the competition then say "we are better". Side by side up to maximum output of the D3 I am sure the D3 will (and D700) will show the way, and be cheaper.

    Also, IMO the D3 is outclassed by the DSIII at low ISO, though as I've said before I look forward to trying their hi-rez camera when they make one.


    Get a D3 put it on ISO 100 at do the comparison. Then show us the result, the Canon Australia team couldn't back this same statement either so I asked them to retract it. It is the sort of off hand dismissive comment that makes me want hurl dayglo everytime I hear one.

    Overall David your comments are interesting but not convincing. I understand you have a lot of experience with the brand and that's fantastic. I just want to see and hear discussion/argument come from Canon that is not marketing spew.

    Other brands and formats don't do it, Canon are the biggest so why do they feel they need to - do they fear their product is really inferior and are afraid someone might find out.

    I even recall in the 1D vs F4 film days Canon had the same style of marketing, maybe its a cultural thing I don't know.
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    by Ken182 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:39 am

    David Anderson wrote:What gear are you using now Ken ?


    Just for the record I have used the the MkIII and of course I liked it and of course it gave a great result - but for the money they want, it had phooking want to have.
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    by Walter Glover » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:40 am

    Ken182 wrote:Canon are the biggest


    Not according to some sources Ken,

    I can't remember whether it was here or on another forum that I made some comments about MF vs 1Ds MkIII but for the type of work that I do there really is no comparison with regard to image quality.

    Now ... economic factors are a totally different kettle of fish. Finding clients with the volume and the budget to justify the $100,000 investment for a top notch MF system is another thing. Most of my clientele is Editorial and Practice Capability/Archive sort of stuff. The budgets are not always in the same league as advertising. I also have to consider that at nearly 60 I do not have an enormous window of opportunity in terms of productive years to recoup the outlay.

    So, effectively, my most viable options are at the level of the EOS 5D (and/or its replacement), the D3 and the D700.

    On some counts I would opt for the Nikon D3 in a trice now that they have the 24mm tilt/shift and I would even venture to break my 'NO-ZOOMS' rule for the new one that is something like 14-24. Add a 60mm Micro and a 105mm Micro and I would be a happy chappy. Could even consider the longer Macro - is it about 200mm or 180mm? But it all comes tumbling down when 200 ISO is the minimum and I neeed to use Crapture to realise the full potential of the RAW files.

    I have used the EOS 5D since it came out and it works fine. Doesn't miss a beat and has nice sized pixels to render excellent image quality. But the fact still remains I still hate Canon as much as I always have and always will. And I have never been a fan of Nikon either.

    As a footnote, I would mention that with the announcement of the 50mp Hasselblad the price of the 31mp Hasselblad dropped to 20 grand. Once the 50mp is a reality I dare say the 39mp will also drop and the 31mp could drop even further.

    The 'Blads have some nice things going for them - not least of which is to control all the settings on the camera remotely ... something other MFs don't do at present.

    I was never a 35mm shooter or fan. I worked a lot with medium format film due to the nature of all the girl shooting I did but my real passion is only for things where I need to hide beneath a horseblanket and view an inverted vision of the world.
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    by Oneputt » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:49 am

    Just a quick point Walter (I have no wish to buy into this discussion), but the D3 can go lower than ISO200. There are two settings lower than this, but Nikon do not specify exactly what ISO they are, as they probably cannot accurately determine what they are. I have used both for experimental purposes.
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