Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography study.
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    Eden
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    Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography study.

    by Eden » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:24 pm

    My daughter (with a nudge or two from me :-D ) is doing photography in year 12 and I have been looking for a suitable second hand camera and lens for her to start with.

    I found and bought (will pick it up tonight) a canon 450d with the 18-55 3.5-5.6 IS 2 lens for $270

    I,m assuming this kit lens is a great starting point for her

    or

    Should I get out my better 17-85 IS USM 3.5-5.6 lens with a stuffed aperture cable and get it fixed ($250 - $300) as it is a little longer in the zoom but a little heavier on the camera.

    Or should I pick her up a second hand

    EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS or EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS,

    as I can get one second hand for probably less than the repair job on the 17-85

    My thoughts in regard to the "EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS or EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS" is that it may negate the need for a second lens to be lugged around and maybe lost or damaged after a lens change is made and using one lens to start with might also keep the sensor a bit more dust free.

    any thoughts or other ideas greatly appreciated

    cheers eden
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    Kurt Vonnegut

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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by LOZ » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:42 pm

    So to avoid bullying ridicule and persecution at school start her off with a Nikon :wink:

    If she is gay Pentax will do
    Calm down its not real life its a internet forum:)
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Eden » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:49 pm

    Aw Loz

    That is not representing your fellow Nikon users too well,

    or are you just letting us know you have a new Pentax :shock:

    :wink: eden

    ( PS...I would rather your thoughts and opinion on the thread question though!)
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by heartyfisher » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:30 pm

    (LOLZ @ LOZ )

    I am assuming that this is her first camera?

    then the super zooms would be a good choice.. either the 135 or the 200 shouldn't make much difference...
    Gives her a chance to learn which focal length she likes..
    Moments of Light : D7K D610 18-200 150 12-24 24-70 70-200 + C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by beeb » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:45 pm

    The 18-55 is fine to start with IMO. It's far from the best, but it's still fine for learning the aperture/shutter speed/ISO/focal length variables.

    If there's a genuine interest in the hobby, then grab one of the superzooms. I reckon the 18-135mm is a decent bit of kit for what it is (and will seem like a huge improvement from the 18-55). Or you could do the good thing and buy her a fast prime - the thrifty-fifty is a good lens for the price, and a good intro to wide-apertures and narrow DOF.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Doug » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:06 pm

    I agree, give her the 18-55 to start with.
    Those focal lengths cover a lot of subject matter and it will encourage her to move around more and think about composition, not as much as a prime but less likely to lead to poor habits as with someone beginning with a super zoom.

    When she feels the need for more reach perhaps look for a 55-200 or similar kit lens, it will give an appreciation of the different roles of focal lengths though having to do a lens change and she is more likely to be aware of the focal lengths she is using than with say a 18-200 all in one lens.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Busiboy » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:33 pm

    35m efl

    Too much range will give too much in decision, a 35mm prime will make her concentrate on composition.
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    C&C always welcome

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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Eden » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:06 pm

    Thanks heaps fellas ,

    Scott , Beeb , Doug and Heartyfisher , Hmmm Loz also?

    im going to stay with the 18-55 for now me thinks

    as it is not a full frame I would not go with Scotts sensible suggestion and go the 35mm (1.6 crop taken into factor so she would be shooting nearly 1 for 1) but the price is a limiting factor and a 30 - 35 prime ( at f2 - 2.8 ) is around the $300 mark and if she had the full frame it would be a 50mm at "1.8" and they are round the $90 mark (much more economical entry point and a far better f stop for the money )

    It is a good point Scott and taken on board ! ( for myself also )


    So now I have my daughters needs sorted to a point, it brings up another question,

    Should I get a 30-35 mm prime in the lowest f stop I can afford and get myself back to basics while I am starting to run ( just so I dont trip and make a typical ass of myself )

    Having the responsibility of "teaching or giving of information" is making me look at myself and the knowledge I have to offer in a different light !!!

    eden
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    Kurt Vonnegut

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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Busiboy » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:30 am

    I was trying to say 35mm Effective focal length.

    either way the short lens is probably a better option, as for yourself, why not just pick a focal length and shoot it with your zoom.

    ie, today is 35mm day, only shoot at that length.

    Saves the cash outlay and you can see if you like it.
    *PPOK*
    C&C always welcome

    Scott
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by W G » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:24 am

    Eden,

    To a point I agree with Scott. A prime will be the best learning instrument. Where I differ, is that a 50mm (or equivalent) will serve best. A starting point of a 'standard' reference will help thoughts of the need for wider or tighter develop whereas, if you start slightly wide, then a 50mm is a long lens.

    It is what most of the better tech colleges tend towards.

    Some are still introducing new comers with simple film cameras.

    Zooms are toys where image-making is concerned and don't foster thought regarding viewpoint. It is just too easy to never move and simply zoom in or out to make something fit rather than seeking out the core essence of what the subject has to offer.

    Cheers,
    Walter Glover

    "Photography was not a bastard left by science on the doorstep of art, but a legitimate child of the Western pictorial tradition." —Robert Galassi
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Doug » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:20 pm

    Zooms are toys where image-making is concerned and don't foster thought regarding viewpoint. It is just too easy to never move and simply zoom in or out to make something fit rather than seeking out the core essence of what the subject has to offer.


    Very true.
    A zoom stops being a toy though when you are properly shown how to use it to best effect and this requires good teaching, understanding and a bit of discipline.

    If it is not explained that other things happen when you zoom other than how much appears in the frame then it will not get used properly.

    Those who are brought up on primes get an instinctive feel for a focal length and all it has to offer, when they use a zoom they will move into position from past experience with a prime knowing that they can frame the shot with the zoom and that will be the intended focal length.

    I also think the "normal" focal length is a good place to start (46 degrees angle of view) 50mm fl or 35 mm fl on a crop. This is the cross over point between wide angle lens characteristics and telephoto characteristics.

    Learning the look and feel of this focal length, will make more apparent what focal lengths either side of it have to offer.

    The trouble with learning photography is that compared to learning a musical instrument it is not as self evident that you could be doing it better.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Wasasaw » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:05 pm

    Hi Eden

    I'm a few decades past year 12 and have no children to know the drum but I would be surprised if there are no guidelines / set requirements to this from the course/subject itself.

    OR are you contemplating from an "extra" curricular point of view?

    If so I would be wary of your daughter's thought process being "distracted" from the thrust of the subject (as seen by the educators)

    Things may have changed since my day but if she strays from the expected it could be to her detriment.

    I don't condone that process by the way just believe it's there and needs consideration.

    I'm probably not articulating this too well.....

    Cheers
    Wasa
    Unless I'm very much mistaken, Oh yes I'm very much mistaken
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by Plays with Light » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:12 am

    I'm pretty late to this, the only suggestion I could offer is to start with the 18-55 and the 50mm f/1.8. I know they cross over, but the 50mm forces considered thought about what you are going to capture, like others have mentioned above and is a pretty versatile lens for the $100! That was the lens that got my photographic juices going. The 18-55mm is no slouch either for beginning, it's more than wide enough for architecture, landscape and even street. I got some amazing shots from the 18-55, using a tripod and with my lowly 1100D to boot!
    Feedback and honest, constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by DJT » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:44 pm

    18-55 should be enough to get her started. I'd also be keeping an eye out for a 35mm prime.
    David
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    Re: Help in regard to lens choice for yr 12 Photography stud

    by troutmouth » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:21 pm

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