70d or 6d
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    Eden
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    70d or 6d

    by Eden » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:30 am

    I will upgrade soon but am still in a quandry in regard to getting the 6d or the 70d.

    the fuji is proving a great argument for crop sensors so I am starting to wonder if my supposedly natural progression should be towards full frame for the sake of full frame or would it be stupid to keep the 1.6 crop system

    I am happy with the average lenses the ef-s range give and would love the 1.6 magnification that I get with a crop sensor to carry on as it is extra zoom and more magnification when doing macro (I love macro and the pivoting screen is a big plus on the 70d)

    the 70d kicks the 7d so this is not an issue

    my real problem is it worth looking at full frame when a schmuck like me honestly cannot see the diff between full frame and crop 90% of the time, maybe even 95% of the time

    by going 70d instead of 6 d I could get an 8 - 15 sigma to beat the wide cravings I get ( typical, wish I loved the 50mm range) in the price and retain the 1.6 for macro.

    oh well I have confused myself more now.

    I suppose it plays in your head the more you are on a budget.

    so I look at it as will the 70d help me ,,,,,,,YES
    will the 6d help me much more ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,UM Not Sure! Dont Know!


    :cry:
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Doug » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:30 am

    I'd go 70D using your reasoning, and without having first hand knowledge of the Fuji options.

    Your 15-85 is a fine lens and your other staple the macro is also giving great results.
    Like you say the 70D has the flip screen that the FF's don't (also built in flash) and you would need to go to the 5Dmk3 to get AF system that is comparable, plus the 70D has the dual pixel sensor that has not flowed on to FF.
    A shot like your resent bee in flight would be a lot easier to achieve with the 70D's AF over the 6D.

    70D comes with the newest iteration of the **D, *D control layout, almost the same as the 6D, so you would get those benefits anyway coming from ***D.

    The 6D suited my basic needs and I had gone the EF lens path already with the 24-105 after my 350D kit lenses.
    With the 70D you will get a more flexible camera, that works with your existing lenses.
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by beeb » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:03 pm

    Another vote for the 70D here - but I would use the money saved compared to buying the 6D to buy a 600EX-RT (and also a springy extension cord (I'd recommend Vello branded items) and a small softbox (can buy of quite feasibly home-make one) :wink: ), as I think it would be a hugely valuable addition to your workflow and creative options. (The reason I suggest the 600EX-RT rather than the 430EX is it's A LOT more powerful, which is quite helpful once you start shooting with a soft-box, and I'd preference a 600EX-RT to a 580EX II as they controls are a lot more user-friendly on the newer model, but a secondhand 580EX II could save a few dollars if you can live with the controls.)

    For your macro work, using flash will give you much better DOF options, and prevent the need to crank up the ISO (which is where the crop-sensor will fall down quickly compared to the Full-frame 6D). Also, you'll find the flash will make the shots very crisp, as the duration of the flash burst is very short (around 1/8000th at full power from memory). This is expecially true if you utilise the "invisible black background" technique - where even though the flash-sync exposure in the camera is 1/200th, because the main exposure is setup so it'll only record a blank black exposure from the natural light (eg: ISO100, small aperture, 1/200th), when the flash exposure is added - at only a fraction of that speed (again, 1/8000th at full power) - it greatly reduces the likelyhood of subject motion blur or camera shake. It also allows you to play with the light balance between the subject and the background, and how close or far you move the light (or size of the soft-box) will change how soft or harsh the lighting is. Some examples of mine from way back:

    Black Background Technique:
    Image

    Image

    Flash lighting subject and surrounds:
    Image

    Image

    And mixed light (Natural and Flash combined):
    Image

    Image

    The AF in the 70D will be miles ahead of the 6D (I assume it is the same as what was in the 7D, and that was/is excellent). If you start (continue?) playing with extension tubes, you'll probably find manual focusing easier for the real close-up shots though.

    The flippy-screen is a bonus, It's one thing I often wish my 5DII/5DIII had. And another perk of staying with the crop-sensor is the DOF for a given aperture effectively is a bit deeper (not technically correct, but in practical terms it as if it is), so you don't have to battle narrow DOF with a full-frame.

    FWIW, I wouldn't recommend a Fuji for you if you're still doing a lot of Macro shooting. The one macro lens doesn't focus particularly close, tubes are available - but the ones I bought felt like they were going to tear the lens electrical contacts out of the body, flash integration is very basic, no Fuji-branded flash offers anywhere near the same output as the 600EX-RTs, flash extension cords and remote triggers are basic at best (if available) and the "smeary" nature of the fine (pixel-level) detail from the Fuji sensors does not lend itself to macros. It's not impossible, but nowhere near as convenient as the Canon D-SLRs. They are still an excellent and capable camera, but not for macros IMO.

    In regards to buying an UWA lens, I would highly recommend getting something with a filter thread as opposed to the bulbous front element and permanent lens hood of the Sigma 8-16mm, as adding on a CPL or ND (or plate-style grad NDs) can give you a lot of extra flexibilty and creative options down the track. I think the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 is probably the pick of the crop-frame UWAs. While it looses out a bit of focal range at the wide end, it seems a markedly better optical performer than the rest of the 10-24ish pack (most of the others are pretty soft/diffracted in the corners of the frame from what I've seen/read).

    Hope that's some help!
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Eden » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:33 pm

    Thanks for the info fellas ,
    very much appreciated.

    I think it will be the 70d for me

    I have a YONGNUO YN465 that Alex has given me :mates: And will start to play with the flash soon.

    The 600EX-RT will be a ripper down the track and will start trying the macro with a flash this week as I have some time off!

    I really like the Dragonfly and Butterfly shots Tim and the Pitcher tube is a treat

    cheers once again

    Eden
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by beeb » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:47 pm

    That YN465 will be a great start (good on you Alex), and if you get a extension cord (preferably TTL-metering capable), you'll be able to move the light around relative to the subject too... A small soft box (around 8") will be huge (relative to the subject), and provide a nice soft light for your macro scenes. Good luck with the new toys, look forward to seeing the results! :)
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Doug » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:04 am

    The Nikon D750 full frame has a flip screen, 24 mp, top end AF, better dynamic range than Canon and same weight as a 6D.

    Just sayin :)
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Eden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:14 am

    The lenses were an issue if I went fuji or nikon.

    So I grabbed a 70d last night on ebay.

    5000 shots on it. Still in waranty and $730. I am picking it up at 6pm tonight

    :paparrazi: :paparrazi: :paparrazi: :D

    It was going to be the 6d or 70d but I just needed a mental slap to confirm my thoughts.
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    Kurt Vonnegut

    PPOK
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by beeb » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:26 am

    Good price, gotta be happy with that!! Nice Christmas present to yourself too... :wink:
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Doug » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:44 pm

    Score!
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by DJT » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:14 pm

    That's the way to do it.
    Congrats on the new 2nd hand camera.
    David
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Eden » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:33 am

    She is sweet!

    The button layout and dial have locks on them, too good coz my clumsy fingers and palm played havoc before.

    flip screen -- Ahhhhh

    my 15-85 EFS IS USM is still good but with the lens recognition and correction updates even better for the final pics I get :D .

    and my shot buffer says 99 instead of 2 :paparrazi: . far out! (That BEE has met its match!)

    It feels like a camera ( please don't ask for a logical explanation of that )

    and last but not least , I can hear my heartbeat!

    not sure if that is good or not! (will report back after work tom morning on that or not)

    cheers Eden

    PS thanks for the feedback Tim/Doug as it is invaluable and unbiased and very helpful to say the least , cheers
    I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    Kurt Vonnegut

    PPOK
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    Re: 70d or 6d

    by Doug » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:25 pm

    How about a meet down the Port, Saturday or Sunday, for a coffee and playing with the new toys.
    That includes Alex(film?), Evan (6D) and Simsy (bound to be something) of coarse.

    Better make separate thread so it gets noticed.

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